Witnessing to an Atheist

This atheist (Kelly) has evidently been influenced by the book "Good without God" by Greg M. Epstein. Her blaming of religion/Christians for the world's problems is based on the historically inaccurate information which fills many of these atheists' books. The link below the video goes to a sight with a more honest evaluation of atheist beliefs and the concept of "good" without God.

Good without God evaluated by The Logical Atheist -

http://thelogicalatheist.blogspot.com/

Do atheists want to be God?

What else could they be in their worldview?

See Blog post -

http://thelogicalatheist.blogspot.com/2011/07/atheists-do-believe-in-god.html

Sound like a certain snake?

God's Righteousness, Love, and the Message of the Cross!

When talking about the cross, it is normal and appropriate to talk about the love of God. The following two verses are common for describing God's love in view of the cross -

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. (NKJV)

Rom. 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (NKJV)

In John 3:16 it is important to remember that the Greek word οὕτως, translated "so" in English does not refer to how much God loved those He saved, but "in this manner" refering to how he demonstrated His love for those he saved. This is important because the emphasis is on how God loved not who He loved. The cross is a demonstration of the greatness of God's love, not the greatness of those He loved!

The who He loved is "us" in Rom. 5:8, referring to church/believers who are the target audience of the letter and the cross (for OT saved also). In John 3:16 we find the same reality in the phrase "whoever believes in Him" πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων in the Greek and literally means "all the ones believing". So God's love is part of His magnificent character and is on display in the death of Jesus on the cross for all those who He would have an eternal relationship with.

However, is the Cross first and foremost about God's love or is there another and maybe even more primary demonstration of God's character seen in the sacrifice of Jesus?

Consider the place of God's righteousness in the work of Jesus/cross in the passage below -

Rom. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (NKJV)

As we see in verse 25, Jesus' being set forth as a "propitiation" or as some translate "atoning sacrifice" is to demonstrate God's righteousness! Now we know God is also demonstrating the quality of His love at the cross, but what are we to see as primary or the main thing and how does it affect evangelism and church life?

I think many would agree that there has been a tendency to minimize God and elevate man when talking about the cross. I know people will say - "you know you are a sinner right" and "God is holy and won't dwell with sin", but don't we then quickly move to how much God wants a relationship with us and how easy it is to have? Of course I realize many today skip over even the most shallow discussion of sin and God's holiness preferring to speak only of how much God loves/wants you (what they say the cross is about) and how easy it is to have Him!

Perish the thought!

The cross must first and foremost be presented as a demonstration of God's character. At the cross we see God's righteousness and how His righteousness dictated the only way of salvation for those He loved - "that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus" (Rom. 3:26b)!  To make the cross look like an act of loving desperation, because God can't be truly happy without us or at least as many of us as He can get, is a very man focused emphasis.

Presenting the cross as all about God's character first and then how we can benefit from that character for our salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ Jesus alone is proper as it highlights His value not ours.

The cross is about His righteousness (He is just and must punish sin) and it is His righteousness that made the cross necessary to save His people - who of course he loves perfectly!

"Scripture taken from the New King James Version. Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc. Used by permission. All rights reserved."

The Logical Atheist Strikes Again!

Follow the link to read the latest dose of applied atheism - it ain't pretty!

http://thelogicalatheist.blogspot.com/

It might help you refute their view next time you get face to face with one.

Good Example of Witnessing to a Catholic

Atheist Reasoning Refuted by Soda Fizz?

If there is no God, then all that exists is time and chance acting on matter. If this is true then the difference between your thoughts and mine correspond to the difference between shaking up a bottle of Mountain Dew and a bottle of Dr. Pepper. You simply fizz atheistically and I fizz theistically. This means that you do not hold to atheism because it is true , but rather because of a series of chemical reactions… … Morality, tragedy, and sorrow are equally evanescent. They are all empty sensations created by the chemical reactions of the brain, in turn created by too much pizza the night before. If there is no God, then all abstractions are chemical epiphenomena, like swamp gas over fetid water. This means that we have no reason for assigning truth and falsity to the chemical fizz we call reasoning or right and wrong to the irrational reaction we call morality. If no God, mankind is a set of bi-pedal carbon units of mostly water. And nothing else. 

Douglas Wilson

New link under sites I enjoy

The Logical Atheist is not supposed to be my beliefs, but the rantings of someone who is trying to be consistent in their atheist views. The Bible says "The fool has said in his heart there is no God" Psalm 14:1a. So don't expect anything intelligent, but it is a bit entertaining!

Timely Repost of an Earlier Article

I wrote this some time ago, but realised recently after a youth/adult outreach and the way I here members talking about church/ministry, that we have made progress in the right direction. The tide is shifting toward a more biblical church model here and I know that with the Lord's ongoing guidance from His word and power from His Spirit we will bear much fruit to His glory!

Note - There is a weird discoloration to the background of one verse, I have not been able to remove it, so please ignore it, the background not the verse.

Here is the post as written last year -

I have been blessed over the past couple years to spend much time in the scriptures exploring the call/purpose of the church. This quest has been fueled by my responsibilities in the church I pastor and the desire to help ensure what I and the Elders who lead with me do is biblically sound. The thing I will consider here is how a church’s structure in terms of facilities, programs, teaching and plans for growth impacts the church’s fulfilling of its call/purpose. Many good things can happen in churches with different models and strategies for carrying out the work God calls us to. However, it is surely wise to evaluate different models of church by scripture to see if there is a better or best way to do church. For the sake of comparison I am going to present two different models for doing church which I believe would to some degree represent most of churches in modern evangelicalism. I realize no church may fit perfectly into either model and may be blends of both or have very unique church models I have not considered. I have labeled the first church model: Reach, Plug in and Grow and the other model: Reach, Equip and Send Out. I will assume that either model has the goal of impacting the world for Christ and have simply chosen different means for accomplishing that goal.

Model one – Reach, Plug In and Grow.

The goal of this model is to reach folks through programs, events and personal evangelism and then plug them into service in the church as soon as possible. Some keys to doing this model might include the following.

1.       Make sure you have plenty of programs suited to people’s felt needs to attract people who otherwise would not come to church. These activities also provide an alternative “safe” place so the world’s influence on church families is reduced.

2.       Have plenty of service opportunities in the church so everyone has a place to “plug in” and use their gifts (also feel a part of the church).

3.       Provide non-threatening grow at your own pace atmosphere.

4.       Provide age-divided classes so children, youth and various age adults can learn alongside others similar to themselves.

5.       Provide mission opportunities for those who feel called to missions and so others can know “how blessed we are here”. Provide a percentage of the budget for mission work around the world.

6.       Make sure the church has property for future growth as more people come and programs are increased.

7.       Set aside money to fund future building projects as the church requires more space.

8.       Increase staff to manage larger needs for ministry and administration as church size increases.

Model two – Reach, Equip and Send Out.

The goal of this model is to reach people through personal ministry and then equip them for personal ministry in their homes, schools, jobs, neighborhoods and for planting churches locally and globally. Some keys to doing this model might include the following.

1.       Current members actively seek to evangelize in their areas of influence through relational ministry and inviting those they reach to church.

2.       New members/families are discipled personally by members/families with more maturity.

3.       Teaching is aimed at equipping every member of the church for ministry in their homes and elsewhere outside the walls of the church. Age mixing is desired for adults so they can learn alongside those who are different from them. Age segregated classes for young children and youth are careful not to replace, but complement parent’s roles in ministering to them.

4.       Elders focus on teaching and equipping the congregation - especially future leaders.

5.       Service opportunities within the church are kept minimal so they don’t distract from the call to go.

6.       The size of church facilities is intentionally limited so that the planting of new churches and equipping of future leaders has urgency.

7.       Avoid unneeded luxuries in the church so money can be sent to help churches in poor nations and model biblical stewardship.

8.       Save money to help fund future churches which the home church trained leaders and portions of the congregation will leave to plant.

Evaluating these two models – If you were to ask, “Which church would most people choose?”, I think the answer is obvious. People naturally want to be in their comfort zones, would rather safely serve within the church building, would rather allow the professional to most of the ministry, would rather be able to see their church grow big, would rather see their families insulated from the world, would rather see their money go to things they can physically enjoy and assume only some Christians are called to ministry and missions. 

What does God call us to do?

Matt. 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. Amen. (NKJV)

Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth. (NKJV)

2 Cor. 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. (NKJV)

These previous verses support our common call as Christians to “Go”! All are to be witnesses for Christ and be involved in making disciples wherever He has us. Going = our personal, God assigned, ministry and mission.

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. (NKJV)

Phil. 2:14 Do all things without complaining and disputing, 15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain. (NKJV)

1 Pet. 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; (NKJV)

Matt. 10: 32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. (NKJV) In context - This is not confessing Him to other believers in the safety of the church, but to unbelievers who may be very hostile!

These verses further support the need for us to go and have exposure in the world so they can see Christ through our actions and words. God wants us to glorify Him as we tell others who He is and what He has done. It is particularly striking that our fear or failure to confess Him in certain circumstances might have serious consequences (Matt. 10:32-33)

God did not call the world to “go therefore into all the churches, become disciples and settle in”, He told us to go to them! The way we do church will either make “going” (personal ministry and mission) the normal expected thing and equipping will be desired or it will make “going” one choice among many and  most will settle into church service and there will be little need or motivation to be equipped.

To Him be all glory!

"Scripture taken from the New King James Version. Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc. Used by permission. All rights reserved."

Charles Spurgeon addressing the church of 2011 - in the 1800's

The church is a separate and distinct thing from the world....

Great attempts have been made of late to make the church receive the world, and wherever it has succeeded it has come to this result, the world has swallowed up the church. It must be so. The greater is sure to swamp the less. They say, “Do not let us draw any hard-and-fast lines. A great many good people attend our services who may not be quite decided, but still their opinion should be consulted, and their vote should be taken upon the choice of a minister, and there should be entertainments and amusements, in which they can assist.”

The theory seems to be, that it is well to have a broad gangway from the church to the world: if this be carried out, the result will be that the nominal church will use that gangway to go over to the world, but it will not be used in the other direction! It is thought by some that it would, perhaps, be better to have no distinct Church at all! If the world will not come up to the Church, let the Church go down to the world—that seems to be the theory. Let the Israelites dwell with the Canaanites and become one happy family! Such a blending does not appear to have been anticipated by our Lord in the chapter which was read just now—I mean the 15th Chapter of John. Read verses 18 and nineteen—“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love his own: but
because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.”

Did Jesus ever say—“Try to make an alliance with the world and, in all things, be conformed to its ways”? Nothing could have been further from our Lord’s mind! Oh, that we could see more of holy separation—more dissent from ungodliness, more nonconformity to the world! This is “the dissidence of Dissent” that I care for—far more than I do for party names and the political strife which is engendered by them.

Let us, however, take heed that our separateness from the world is of the same kind as our Lord’s. We are not to adopt a peculiar dress, or a singular mode of speech, or shut ourselves out from society. He did not do so! He was a man of the people, mixing with them for their good. He was seen at a wedding feast, aiding the festivities. He even ate bread in a Pharisee’s house, among captious enemies! He neither wore phylacteries, nor enlarged the borders of His garments, nor sought a secluded cell, nor exhibited any eccentricity of manner. He was separate from sinners only because He was holy and harmless—and they were not. He dwelt among us, for He was of us. No man was more a man than He and yet He was not of the world, neither could you count Him among them. He was neither Pharisee, nor Sadducee, nor Scribe. But, at the same time, none could justly confuse Him with publicans and sinners. Those who reviled Him for consorting with these last, did, by that very reviling, admit that He was a very different person from those with whom they went. We want all members of the Church of Christ to be, manifestly and obviously, distinct persons, as much as if they were of a separate race, even when they are seen mingling with the people around them!

We are not to cut ourselves off from our neighbors by pretense and contempt. God forbid! Our avoiding of pretension, our naturalness, simplicity, sincerity and amiability of character should constitute a distinction. Through Christians being what they seem to be, they should become remarkable in an age of pretenders! Their care for the welfare of others, their anxiety to do good, their forgiveness of injuries, their gentleness of manner—all these should distinguish them far more than they could be distinguished by a particular mode of dress or by any outward signs. I long to see Christian people become more distinct from the world than ever because I am persuaded that until they are, the Church will never become such a power for blessing men as her Lord intended her to be.

It is for the world’s good that there should be no alliance between the Church and the world by way of compromise, even to a shade! it is, or where it can be found. It must be a singular mixture. I know what is meant by a worldly Christian; and I suppose the Christian world must be an aggregate of worldly Christians. But the church of Christ is not of the world. “Ye are not of the world,” says Christ, “even as I am not of the world.”

(from: The Lord’s Own View of His Church And People, Sermon #1957, delivered by C.H. Spurgeon at the Metropolitan Tabernacle, Newington)

The most ridiculous thing California has done yet, I think?

I am preaching on Romans 13:1-7 Sunday and will spend much time exhorting my flock to obey those in authority as a witness for Christ and to the glory of Christ. Unless asked to sin, we obey is pretty much the Bible's message.

California certainly is a great place to go if you want to apply this teaching and test your faith. They have just passed a law that requires special curriculum be added to textbooks and class lectures highlighting the great accomplishments of those with non-traditional: Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual/etc. (sinful) sexual lifestyles.

See news story here:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/14/california-gay-history-law-jerry-brown_n_898745.html

It is a mystery to me why we can't highlight great accomplishments of people without making special mention of their color, ethnic heritage or sex (male/female). I do believe God has made men and women different and with different roles in families and church, but if we want to treat all people the same in society should we be seeking to identify and highlight the differences or not really think much about them? That may be an issue with several reasonable answers. However, the situation in California goes to a totally different area of recognition.

Are we to start recognizing the great accomplishments of those who are celibate? Are we to recognize the great accomplishments of those who are virgins or faithful to their marriage or adulterers or child molesters or like to watch? Must we now take every person on earth and distinguish them by their sexual activities and put them in different chapters of California’s textbooks?

I can watch a movie with Cary Grant (most people say he was gay) without thinking about what he did on his own time off-screen. Must we now have a full sexual dossier on every actor, politician, schoolteacher, fireman, author, etc. so we know whether they should be praised for their accomplishments and their sexual deviancy?

If I lived in California I would pay my taxes and obey the laws. However, if I were a teacher I could not in good conscious tell my students that any deviant sexual behavior was good let alone especially praiseworthy. I would have to respectfully share my great displeasure at this ruling, encourage those in authority to repent and resign if they will not reverse this shameful law. Easy for me to say from North Carolina, but my wife works in the classroom here and we may soon get to test our own resolve in this area as this kind of immoral anti-God legislation sweeps the country.

Joel is coming to town, here is what he says the cross accomplished

Unlike Joels' message - The Bible says:

Rom. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all^[h] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

1 Cor. 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

Joel says something quite different:

The very epitome of a man centered non-saving message.

"Scripture taken from the New King James Version. Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc. Used by permission. All rights reserved."

Aging/ill Parents with Hope!

I have had a lot of illness in my family over the past few weeks. My Father in law had back surgery and developed a super-infection which is still not resolved after two weeks of hospitalization and antibiotics. He is more or less unconscious at the moment, please pray for him.

My Mother in law has been declining from her ongoing fight with Parkinson’s disease over the past few years and is at the point of us questioning if she can still live independently. Please pray for her and us as we try to find what is best for her.

My Father had a stroke two weeks ago and is still not functioning at 100%. This alone would be enough, but my mother suffered a severe infection and chemical/nutritional imbalance just as he was getting released from the hospital and she has been hospitalized up until yesterday when she entered a nursing home for rehab. She is still not in her right mind and we hope/pray that she will be restored to both physical and mental health.

My parents are of extra concern for me because they live far from any of us children and we are trying to take turns visiting/staying with them until we see how well they recover. I must give God much glory in this situation! My parents have been changed by a relationship with Jesus. Until a couple years ago when they professed faith in Jesus, got baptized and became active in a church, I would have never believed they could handle what they are going through, but God has been faithful and they are calling on him. Even my mother in a moment of clarity told me she had talked with Jesus and He said it was all OK. I would have bet the farm against ever hearing such a thing only a couple years ago. Praise the Lord!

Our parents have lived very full and generally comfortable lives, they are very successful by worldly standards, but all that is relevant when you or someone you love is very ill, hospitalized or loosing grip with reality is the eternal things we have in Christ and the right now love of family (church or natural relatives).

The Savior is teaching me about Him in all circumstances - Praise Him!

Following Jesus and Family Conflict

Matthew 10:34-39 suggests following Jesus will bring conflict within families:

Matt. 10:34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it. (NKJV)

We know very little about the family lives of the early disciples, but we can still wonder about how their call to follow Jesus impacted their relationships with parents, in laws, children and siblings. How would Saul/Paul's family have felt when he threw away a promising career as a Pharisee to suffer shame, jail, torture and eventual martyrdom? Peter had a mother-in-law, so we know he was married and might assume he had children, how did they feel about their new lifestyle?

Brothers and sisters might expect their siblings to share in the care for elderly parents, could Paul help from prison? Peter's wife might have wanted to get their children an education, but how did his new life affect that plan? When children saw their standard of living go down as a result of their family following Jesus, what would they think about their father for leading them in this direction?

Even if the family is generally supportive and/or doesn't complain out loud, men generally want to feel like they are providing for their families. This could certainly be sinful pride and/or comparing to others, but we also have an obligation to provide for our families according to scripture (1 Tim. 5:8).

Would any disciple be tempted at times to say, "enough is enough" and make providing for their family in the way their parents, siblings, in-laws, children, spouses or according to their own standards (prideful or biblical) their top priority?

What is best? One thing for sure, we can't make anyone else happy all the time. However, as joy and peace are fruit of the Spirit, helping them come to know Jesus and find their joy from Him/Spirit is better than anything we can do for them at any given point in time. Further, we don't know the future so to back away from the call of God to make others happy or provide for their future can't be better than God's perfect/sovereign plans for His followers. To love Jesus is to follow Jesus even when others wish you would put their desires first.

If we really love our family we will want them to follow Jesus. If they see us valuing their respect or love more than our relationship with Jesus and call to follow Him, have we done them any favor? Will they have the best witness of the truth of the gospel by seeing their parent/brother/child/etc. give in to their desires to make them happy or by seeing them stay the course in spite of being seen as weak, foolish or even uncaring about other people's needs?

How did Jesus look to His family as He took up His cross? Foolish? Waste of business/carpentry talent? A slacker who won't share the burdens of His family? How humbling to be the Creator and Lord of all the earth and be seen as a complete failure by those you loved the most? I fear my pride would have caused me to show them who I was, what I was capable of.

Would Jesus have been loving them/us best if he went back to carpentry or made himself king on the spot? Anything would have made those who loved Him more happy than Him going to the cross, but thankfully He loved and obeyed the Father and loved us differently than we would have chose to be loved!

"Scripture taken from the New King James Version. Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc. Used by permission. All rights reserved."

John Piper - Not the Prosperity Gospel!